GUEST COLUMN
By Matthew Avitabile
Especially in the wake of Ron Paul's 2008 bid for the Republican nomination for the Presidency, talk of the split between conservatives and libertarians has heated up. In fact, some libertarians voted for Libertarian Party Candidate Bob Barr and some even voted for Barack Obama himself.
But over a year since the election, it can be seen that this was faulty thinking.
The Libertarians who voted for Obama did so because they believed that he would end the war. In fact, he is sending more troops to Afghanistan and has kept troops in Iraq. This voting was a poor choice, seeing that the President will not only send in more troops, but is still dangerously ill-informed on foreign affairs.
Some voted for Obama because of privacy rights. Candidate Obama railed against Bush Administration policies of eavesdropping to catch terrorists. When actually in power, Obama has expanded these powers, while still talking against them.
Libertarians must remember what they have in common with the conservative movement. Both sides support gun rights and will likely work together to stop any potential efforts of the new Administration to restrict firearms.
Libertarians also believe in property rights. They believe that the right of a citizen to own and use their own property is absolute. Voting for a statist system is likely to restrict these rights. Even the most liberal Republicans support guns and property. Many in the DNC would like to restrict our rights.
We must make sure we set America right. Fighting each other will only strengthen Obama's hand and will assist in his bid for reelection. We must band together for our joint interests and against the hypocrisy of the modern statist Democratic Party.
Editor's Note - Matthew writes for Jumping in Pools blog.
18 comments:
"Even the most liberal Republicans support guns and property."
In what universe?
Gun rights?
Congressman James Talent (R-MO) -- at one time an endorsed candidate of the Republican Liberty Caucus and a poster boy for the conservative end of the GOP -- never met a gun ban he didn't like, until opposing concealed carry in Missouri cost him the governorship in 2000 and almost cost him what should have been an easy US Senate race in 2002.
He voted for the "assault weapons" ban, closing "the gun show loophole," requiring trigger locks, and Schumer's "20 years in prison if you've ever been ACCUSED of a crime and get found with a gun" amendment.
Property rights? Tell that to bar and restaurant owners. In St. Louis County, Missouri the county council once beat down a proposed smoking ban with every Democrat on the council voting against it and all but one Republican voting for it.
Sure, Republicans run as Libertarians, but once they win they're Obama Lite at best.
The ones that will be at odds are the social conservatives and the I can do anything I want without consequence libertarians. Gun rights are a funny thing. I agree with tom on them, but in general, you probably will find more pro-gun people on the right. It depends on the demographics. Michael Bloomberg is a republican. That should say it all.
"you probably will find more pro-gun people on the right"
Correct ... to a degree. In general, a Republican (i.e. the right) is more likely to be pro-gun than a Democrat (i.e. the left).
On the other hand, a libertarian (i.e. the left) is even more likely to be pro-gun than a Republican (i.e. the right). Offhand, I can only think of one anti-gun LP member/candidate I've ever met.
And there definitely are anti-gun, anti-property Republicans.
In my little sampling of the masses, there appear to be a good number of ‘tea party’ type conservatives, who call themselves conservatives, but stress the small government, fiscal conservative side, and don’t think much of the typical social conservative views. I think there’s a tendency now for true small government conservatives and libertarians to come together to beat the statists. Maybe after the statists are beaten, we can go back to arguing about legalizing pot, etc.
The most Conservative Republicans are eager to be well paid government administrators of liberal Big Brother programs. Conservative politicians do not want small government because they would have to get jobs in the private sector.
This thread is a perfect example of why the Libertarian party is such a worthless circle jerk.
So much proud, self-important bullshit. What a sad joke.
@Gary:
I thought that was RINOs?
Right Guy:
All Republicans are "RINOs". Look hard at the 2008 GOP platform. Not one word about abolishing even one Federal Big Brother program of any kind at all. But the GOP Sheeple keep voting for these liars.
Every few years we hear this same old tired dance, conservatives and libertarians unite against the Statists!
Then, conservatives begin composing legislation that erodes the natural rights of women, homosexuals, the terminally ill etc.
I concur with Nick Gillespie over at Reason, libertarians are like abused spouses that keep returning home to the abuser. When is enough, ever enough?
I am in nearly complete and total concurrence with my Conservative brethren on fiscal and foreign policy, but that's where the meeting of the minds comes to an abrupt end.
I don't kid myself by ever thinking that Republcians need libertarians nearly as much as libertarians need Republicans for Realpolitik considerations,all one has to do is look at the sorry excuse for a "Libertarian Party" to understand this.
That being written, it doesn't mean I always feel like going to the dance with the Conservatives.
Conservatives wouldn't join the Democrat Party en masse simply to win in the electoral landscape, why should Conservatives expect anything different from principled Libertarians.
@Right Guy
"I can do anything I want without consequence libertarians."
Your strawman is ready to be picked up at the store, right along with your other arguments in regard to this subject matter.
If you conflate libertarianism with libertinism, then may I conflate conservatism with fascism?
@Ryan:
If you don't believe that there are those like that in the libertarian movement, then you are wrong...No straw men there. Plenty of them post here. You are talking about a philosophy, not a political movement.
"Then, conservatives begin composing legislation that erodes the natural rights of women"
Just what would an example of a "natural right" that applied specifically to women be pray tell?
Might it involve killing children? Or does it have something to do with bikini waxing instead?
I suppose people with a buttsex fetish also have some imaginary natural rights as well.
Spare me.
Statist? With all due respect, give me a fucking break. A statist is someone who wants to use government to tear down the cultural norms of the society that created that government in the first place. Only a lowlife scumbag would call someone wanting to preserve their way of life a "statist" or any other bullshit pejorative. Their is nothing "libertarian" about wanting to subjugate an entire population to the will of a tiny handful of deviants out of spite.
@Chuck: I guess slavery never ended for some. Form my point of viw a person would have to believe in it to promulgate such rights. What is it that you say about liberals?
It needs to become what we all are willing to say freely.
Leftists are the scum of this earth.
I wanted you to have the last word.
@Chuck
"Statist? With all due respect, give me a fucking break. A statist is someone who wants to use government to tear down the cultural norms of the society that created that government in the first place. Only a lowlife scumbag would call someone wanting to preserve their way of life a "statist" or any other bullshit pejorative. Their is nothing "libertarian" about wanting to subjugate an entire population to the will of a tiny handful of deviants out of spite."
Quite honestly Chuck, I don't know what in the hell you're talking about?
I was referring to conservatives and libertarians uniting against statist LEFTISTS, and the misnamed modern day 'liberals'.
I don't view conservatives as statists whatsoever. I would never call conservatives statists. I believe you misunderstood what I wrote.
I am not a leftist, or a modern day liberal,nor have I ever considered myself to be one. Period.
"to the will of a tiny handful of deviants out of spite."
Nice.
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