Louis Farrakhan blames the Jews, seeks to deny the HolocaustObama friend and ally, Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan made the following statements at a March 1 Savior's Day gathering. The event took place in Rosemont, Illinois. Over 14,000 were in attendance.
According to newly released transcripts from the ADL, Farrakhan said the following:
Israelis are "Liars, thieves, murderers" who have "taken the position of God" and are out to "kill everybody."
"The Israeli lobby controls the government of the United States of America."
"… you can't even engage in constructive argument over the veracity of the figures of the Holocaust. We know something happened, sure, but you can't talk about [it]. In certain cities in Europe they arrest you and put you in prison for denying such."
In the new age of Obama, Farakhan appears to be emboldened to speak more freely about the Jews. A spokesman for the ADL had this to say in the release:"Louis Farrakhan is at it again," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. "After his near-silence on Jews over the last several years, we thought Minister Farrakhan had put his long history of anti-Semitism and racism behind him, or at least had held his views in check. Apparently, that was wishful thinking. Once again he is clearly comfortable with putting his bigotry on display, unfettered and unhidden for his supporters and the world to see."Note - Obama was an attendee at the 1998 Million Man March sponsored by Farrakhan.
26 comments:
Hating Jews seems to never go out of style. Its always been the most fashionable sort of bigotry. Farrakhan is simply one more brown colored Klansman who gets a pass because of the great racial excuse. (which is a pernicious form of bigotry in its own right)
Co-Sponsored by Farrakhan
And how is Farrakhan Obama's "friend and ally"?
Let me guess, it's because Obama is a Communist-closet-Muslim-but-also-Atheist-non-US-citizen, right? right?
I'm truly amazed Hector. Rather than condemning Farrakhan's statements, you choose to condemn the article, and question the veracity of the statements.
Are you a Jew hater too? C'mon Hector. You can admit it. We're in the age of Radical Muslim President Barack HUSSEIN Obama. There's nothing to hide.
The government won't come after you for your bigotry. Hell, they'll more likely to congratulate you and even give you some sort of government subsidy.
Farrakhan is an anti-semite, and has made very specific anti-semitic comments in the past.
Criticizing Israel, and especially criticizing the power of the Israeli lobby over US policy, however, is not anti-semitism (although that could possibly be one motivation for it).
Unless there's more there than ADL is showing, it looks like Farrakhan has actually simmered down some. I doubt that he's stopped being an anti-semite, though, and I'm about 99% certain he hasn't stopped being a certifiable loon.
You're right. His statements are not "Anti-Semitic." Semite refers to the people living in the area of Judea and Sumeria, which includes Arabs and Muslims. Farrakhan is very Pro-Muslim.
His statements are simply Anti-Jew. To suggest "Anti-Semite," is wrong-headed. I try to stay clear of that term to avoid confusion. If someone is Anti-Jew, he should be described precisly as such.
Israeli /= Jew
Obama and Wright are racist bigots!
One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America
Rita-Texas
1) Anti-Israel /= Anti-Jewish.
2) Anti-Israeli domination of US policy /= Anti-Israel
There may be some overlap, but Israel is not "the Jews," nor are "the Jews" Israel. Israel has a substantial non-Jewish population, and the world outside of Israel has a substantial Jewish population. Since Israel itself asserts a Jewish national character, it's safe to say that anti-Jewishness inherently includes anti-Israeliism, but not necessarily vice versa.
When specifically discussing how US policy is to be framed, objecting to undue Israeli influence in that area is not necessarily even anti-Israel, let alone anti-Jewish.
Even some among those who support heavy US aid for and diplomatic entanglement with Israel oppose undue influence by "the Israeli lobby" on making that happen. They want American policy decisions to be made by Americans in America.
There are also those who support Israel but don't support US aid for and diplomatic entanglement with Israel. I'm among them. I'm happy to write small checks to Israeli-supporting charities, etc., and may still yet make it over for a civil guard tour if I can ever learn enough Hebrew to qualify. That doesn't mean I want my government spending tax dollars on their government, or attempting to guarantee their nation's security.
Farrakhan is anti-Israeli. In the past, he's also been openly, loudly and vociferously anti-Jewish. I'm surprised that ADL didn't have more of THAT on him in this release; most of what they had was just anti-Israeli, which isn't the same thing.
He's just a poor confused right wing hate slinger, I mean he must be confused since he talks and acts like someone from the left, but the whole world knows hate is only spread by right wingers, right?
Right versus Left is often a relative quantification on a spectrum -- and Nation of Islam has arguably been on the "Right" end of that spectrum especially within the African-American political milieu.
All the evil bullshit (and there's a lot of it) aside, Elijah Muhammed, Malcolm X and to a degree Farrakhan preached against welfare dependency and for strong communities and "traditional values" (sexual chastity outside of marriage, avoiding drugs and alcohol).
Malcolm X in particular was big on "don't sit around blaming white people for your problems -- quit acting like slaves and, be proud of who you are and start start acting for yourselves" (paraphrase -- it's been many years since I read Alex Haley's "autobiography").
In Saudi Arabia I served with two black Marines who didn't like Farrakhan (they considered him clownish), but who were heavily influenced by Nation of Islam. They were saving their money to start a grocery store in their neighborhood after the war so that they'd be controlling their own destinies and building their community instead of working for someone else and hoping that Uncle Sugar would take care of their neighborhood.
In any case, Nation of Islam is pretty small potatoes. Estimates of its number of adherents seem to range from 25,000 to 100,000 nationwide. By comparison, there are 35,000-45,000 Bosnian Muslims now living in St. Louis, Missouri.
Kn@ppster,
They were saving their money to start a grocery store in their neighborhood after the war so that they'd be controlling their own destinies and building their community instead of working for someone else and hoping that Uncle Sugar would take care of their neighborhood.
Now, that's solid values! Down here, of all the Muslims I know, less than a dozen of them work for non-Muslims.
Eric,
It is rather obvious that Farrakhan's statements are, not only full of hate and bitterness, but also incredibly stupid. What amazes me is your "ability" to spin this story to become an Anti-Obama one, when Barack himself rejected Farrakhan's support during his campaign
I think this man is just horrible. I saw him once at a million man march (obviously not the orginal one) in DC, and instead of focusing on the positive all he could talk about was how the Jews belonged in the gutter. And Hector- while I am familiar with the fact that Obama did reject Farrakhan specifically, Reverend Wright said in a recent interview that he and Obama are still friends. This is a man who also spouted hate- including saying, "Don't say G-d Bless America, say G-d d**n America" (and Obama says he was not in the audience at any time that Wright said anything negative, that specific video, right after the cursing America, Wright says "Now we have a young man in our audience today named Barack Obama..."- who's lying?). Now, I am unsure what religious place of worship you attend, or whether you attend at all, and it is none of my business to know that, but what I saw with my own two eyes on a video Rev. Wright saying, would be unthinkable to say in ANY religious place of worship I have been to, and I am open so I have been to a lot. I'll say this- before I heard about Farrakhan I was a big supporter of Obama. I told everyone about him, before anyone even knew who this guy was. The Farrakhan connection happened, I was a little offended, but I am willing to forgive, I went on staying an Obama supporter. Then the Rev. Wright thing became more apparent with videos and publicity. Now, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, so I bailed on Obama. About a week after that, I felt VERY glad that I did, as Obama made a partnership with a VA (I am from Northern VA, so I know who this guy is) politician- Moran. A few years back Moran was caught in a synagogue saying this- "If it weren't for the Jews, we wouldn't even be in Iraq." I have to say, not very smart to say in a synagogue- to your Jewish supporters! I am still happy that I did not vote for Obama. I feel I would have a lot of egg on my face- not only for his MANY connections to people who at least make anti-semetic comments, but now that he brought in something as unconstitutional as the G.I.V.E. bill (look up Jewish history- the Jewish people have been slaves numerous times, to bring back even a little bit of forced servitude is wrong and an insult to SO MANY different cultures; we came to America to be free), and chose a virtual volcano waiting to erupt as his chief of staff (yes, I do know that he is Jewish, doesn't make him not crazy, or at least a guy willing to send dead fish to people to get them to do what he wants them to), I feel confident that at least I made the right choice. While I understand that, yes, Farrakhan specifically, and in and of itself, may be something to question or forgive, there have been many (and I do mean MANY, did you forget Ayers?) situations in which Obama has shown that he may not have been the best candidate, and one of those reasons may be his numerous ties to anti-semites and other racists. So, please don't bash others when maybe you were not aware of all of the facts in advance. Assuming that we believe Obama is a communist, Muslim, athiest, a non-citizen, or accusing us of many things just because we don't like him, is starting to become offensive. You remember what they say about people that assume.
-Danielle
www.theyreallliars.com
A mostly political blog that isn't Republican or Democrat.
I'm issuing a challenge to all Israel worshippers. Find me one man who was aboard the _USS Liberty_ who believes that the 1967 attack was accidental.
Danielle,
Wright served in the military. That alone entitles him to say whatever the hell he wants about America, in my opinion. Have YOU served?
Now, I don't know what religion you feel particularly fond of, but the religion that I grew up with taught directly from the Bible and it features statements that are a lot more problematic than just "God damned America". I'd be far more bothered by a preacher getting up and defending the verses in the Bible that call for the rape of women, the bashing of babies heads against stones, slavery, et cetera. Now, if you think that what Wright said was outrageous, then you obviously haven't been to any church that reads from the actual Bible itself.
Interestingly, Wright talks like a "right-wing" preacher ... and then takes hell for it.
Most lefty religious ministers seem to be all New Age love and light stuff. Wright is a lot more like Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson. The message is always "American is full of sin. God should punish -- IS punishing -- us for it."
Sure, they differ on the details (Wright says God's pissed because of discrimination against black people, Robertson says God's pissed because some school board chose science over evangelism), but it's the same approach.
Falwell was an idiot, no doubt. In fact, an admitted registered DEMOCRAT! all his life.
But I'd be careful about bashing Pat Robertson. Remember, he was close friends with Ron Paul. Even a roommate of Paul's at a weeklong Conference in the 1980s.
Robertson had his faults, but his views on monetary policy, and capitalism, were absolutely 100% libertarian.
Even on social matters, he had a bit of a libertarian streak. Recall his endorsement of pro-gay, pro-choice Rudy Giuliani in 2007.
Bint Alshamsa,
No, I did not serve in the actual military (but I bet you didn't either), but I am and have always been very involved in my community, including numerous hours of volunteer work helping people learn to read and the like, and I am studying to work as a psychologist, and plan on working in the DC SVU (you can't get more involved in the nitty gritty of life than the DC SVU). Just about everyone in my family has been in the military. My father, both my grandfathers, all of my uncles, and my sister is serving RIGHT NOW. I was an army brat, and a lot of people that know what the military is like and know the toll it take on family, know that what I described above, or even just being an army brat, is serving enough. I believe in charity (both the monetary and with my time kind) and give a lot more than most. I would like to say one thing though- I do not ask for any kind of special rights or accolades just for what I have given, and for what my family members have fought and died for. As a matter of fact, my uncle who served his country in the military, the federal government, and the local public school system for his entire life (61 years!), was recently diagnosed with terminal cancer. Want to know what the country that appreciates his life long service gave him when he was medically retired- a $300 a month pension, in DC where $300 a month doesn't go that far (the rent on my modest home is 5x that). Despite that my family came here later than most, was treated like garbage in most places that we lived, including at times the U.S., we still served our country, and did not ask anything special (meaning any rights that are not granted you) in return.
Now that we got my service vs. your service vs. Rev. Wright's service and what that entitles us all to- now to the religion part. Are there things in the bible that are deplorable? Yes, but if you find a way to look at it, every story is a warning. You speak of the bible supporting slavery, well you must not have read my post thoroughly, as I denounced slavery as something that should NEVER be brought back, ever. Is it in the Bible, well actually, the Jewish religion not too far from today will be celebrating a holiday called Passover (and when Jesus was taken by the Roman soldiers into custody, the meal that he and his disciples were eating was a Passover one) in which it denounces the slavery that the Jewish people were subjected to. The slavery that was supported by the bible was actually more of a mistranslation. The slavery that they speak of was more of an indentured servitude, then slavery. After 7 years, the slave was not only allowed to go, but forced to, he was to be sat at the family table and served before all others ("you are not to eat white bread and he black bread, you are not to drink old wine and give him new, you are not to sleep on a feather bed and he on straw- whoever acquires a slave aqcuires a master for himself"), and a "master" could never give the "slave" work that he, himself would not do or work him longer than he himself works (how many bosses do you know like that?).
I have heard of no bible verse that specifically states that rape of a woman is okay, and most people in most religions that I know (and like I said before I have been to a lot of religious houses of worship, from Christian all the way to a temple for Zen Buddhist monks) would openly denounce such a horrible violence of women. And I am obviously in no support of that, or I wouldn't want to work for the DC SVU and put MY LIFE on the line to get people that commit these horrible offenses off the streets and out of the homes of the children in our community. If you can find such a bible verse, please post it, I would love to see you find a bible verse that SUPPORTS the rape of women, but I think that you cannot find it.
As far as the bashing of children's head against rocks, well I have not seen that in my bible, but I believe you are referring to Herod, who killed all the male children under 2 because he did not want any rivalry to the thrown. If it is in your bible, I am sure it is not in support of him. Herod is looked at as a truly wicked person by both the Christian and Jewish religions. They say that it is better to be Herod's pig than his son, as Herod remaining kosher would not eat a pig, but he killed his own son. I don't see where the bible supported that. The only time I have seen religion, or at least, culture support the killing of children, was on Masada, as it was better to kill your children and yourself, than to see them be raped and tortured.
So, I am not sure which religion actually supports these horrible things you speak of, but that still does not mean that "g*d d**n America" is okay. I would rather be part of NO religion than listen to either of the religions you describe. Thankfully, I do not have to as there are many, many peaceful religions out there. But I think you will find if you just stay home and read the bible, it will show a different side- maybe it is not the bible that is wrong, but the preacher that taught you. Certainly in the recent past, we have seen many priest, preachers, rabbis, etc- that have distorted the bible for their own sick reasons. I am just saying Rev. Wright is one of them.
Now, as far as Wright being allowed to say what he wants to- you are absolutely right, he (and my father, sister, uncles...) founght for his (and yours, and mine) right to say what it is that we want to say. However, that doesn't mean I have to like or even believe that he is not a nutcase for saying what it is that he says. As a matter of fact, I can even decide NOT to vote into presidency someone who supports someone that goes off into what I believe to be as hate filled rants. Look at it another way, does my Uncle having served his entire life in the military entitle him to say something hate-filled? Well, it does! But do you have to believe it/ agree with it/ or even acknowledge it? I mean, he did serve longer than Wright! No, you do not have to agree with him 1 iota! And I don't have to vote for someone that has NUMEROUS connections with people that spout hate speech.
-Danielle
www.theyreallliars.com
A mostly political blog that isn't Republican or Democrat.
P.S. Not all Israelis are Jewish. Israel is a mix of all different kinds of different backgrounds from different religions. 20% of the population is Muslim. There are Christians, athiests, just about everything you can think of. And also, there are Jewish people all over the world, with ethnicities of all kinds. And considering the Jewish religion denounces lying, and stealing, and murdering, it is offensive, to all people regardless of religion, to put them into this group.
bint,
Anyone can say whatever he/she wants about America, regardless of Military service.
Danielle,
No, I did not serve in the actual military (but I bet you didn't either)
Nope. I worked for the military, but couldn't join because of my disabilities. Have you done the same?
but I am and have always been very involved in my community, including numerous hours of volunteer work helping people learn to read and the like,
Join the club. I tutored kids from disadvantaged backgrounds for several years. I tutored children with disabilities. While at university, I tutored ESL students. After that, I tutored children with parents or siblings with cancer. I volunteer with my local cancer support group, helping members cope when they have been diagnosed as incurable. I've also participated in cancer research at the university level.
I am studying to work as a psychologist, and plan on working in the DC SVU (you can't get more involved in the nitty gritty of life than the DC SVU).
Try working as a volunteer in hospice settings and then get back with me on that.
Just about everyone in my family has been in the military. My father, both my grandfathers, all of my uncles, and my sister is serving RIGHT NOW. I was an army brat, and a lot of people that know what the military is like and know the toll it take on family, know that what I described above, or even just being an army brat, is serving enough.
*yawn* I've got family that's serving right now and my family has had someone serving in every single war this country has ever fought, except for the first gulf war. You're not the only one here that comes from a patriotic family.
I would like to say one thing though- I do not ask for any kind of special rights or accolades just for what I have given, and for what my family members have fought and died for.
So what? Neither do I. Nothing that Wright said indicates that he believes he should receive "special rights or accolades", so what's your point in saying this?
As a matter of fact, my uncle who served his country in the military, the federal government, and the local public school system for his entire life (61 years!), was recently diagnosed with terminal cancer. Want to know what the country that appreciates his life long service gave him when he was medically retired- a $300 a month pension, in DC where $300 a month doesn't go that far (the rent on my modest home is 5x that).
Then your uncle hasn't received good advice. If what you state is true and complete, then he qualifies for much more than that from the government. Of course, if he doesn't WANT anything more than that, then that's his choice. However, his country has made provisions for him so that he doesn't have to live on $300 a month. Being diagnosed as terminal entitles him to an expedited hearing if he chose to apply for the SSD benefits he now qualifies for. Feel free to contact me privately on my blog if you'd like some assistance and/or information on how he can get started. Nevertheless, this has absolutely nothing to do with whether Wright has said anything improper nor does it affect whether someone completely unrelated to Obama has any bearing on who he is.
Despite that my family came here later than most, was treated like garbage in most places that we lived, including at times the U.S., we still served our country, and did not ask anything special (meaning any rights that are not granted you) in return.
Was treated? Hahaha! A lot of people are still being treated like garbage in most of the places where they've lived. What's your point?
Now that we got my service vs. your service vs. Rev. Wright's service and what that entitles us all to- now to the religion part. Are there things in the bible that are deplorable? Yes, but if you find a way to look at it, every story is a warning.
Sure. You could say that. However, you could also say that it's advice about how we ought to live today and you could also say that it is the blueprint for what governments should and shouldn't allow. After all, that's what plenty of preachers say at the pulpit every single Sunday. It isn't just Wright who thinks that God has passed judgment on America because it isn't sufficiently obedient to the Bible (in their eyes).
You speak of the bible supporting slavery, well you must not have read my post thoroughly, as I denounced slavery as something that should NEVER be brought back, ever.
Nevertheless, the Bible does support it. If you've been to lots of churches that actually preach from the Bible, you'd know that.
Is it in the Bible, well actually, the Jewish religion not too far from today will be celebrating a holiday called Passover (and when Jesus was taken by the Roman soldiers into custody, the meal that he and his disciples were eating was a Passover one) in which it denounces the slavery that the Jewish people were subjected to.
The fact that some people were freed does not negate the fact that the Bible called for the enslavement of others.
The slavery that was supported by the bible was actually more of a mistranslation. The slavery that they speak of was more of an indentured servitude, then slavery. After 7 years, the slave was not only allowed to go, but forced to, he was to be sat at the family table and served before all others ("you are not to eat white bread and he black bread, you are not to drink old wine and give him new, you are not to sleep on a feather bed and he on straw- whoever acquires a slave aqcuires a master for himself"), and a "master" could never give the "slave" work that he, himself would not do or work him longer than he himself works (how many bosses do you know like that?).
The stuff you are claiming only applied to certain people. Others, non-Jewish slaves, could be kept indefinitely. They could be raped, beaten, and killed with impunity.
I have heard of no bible verse that specifically states that rape of a woman is okay, and most people in most religions that I know (and like I said before I have been to a lot of religious houses of worship, from Christian all the way to a temple for Zen Buddhist monks) would openly denounce such a horrible violence of women.
Then you obviously haven't read the entire Bible.
And I am obviously in no support of that, or I wouldn't want to work for the DC SVU and put MY LIFE on the line to get people that commit these horrible offenses off the streets and out of the homes of the children in our community. If you can find such a bible verse, please post it, I would love to see you find a bible verse that SUPPORTS the rape of women, but I think that you cannot find it.
In that case, you thought wrong. Wasn't it just you who mentioned something regarding what they say about people who assume things?
Thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I will raise up evil against you out of your own house. And I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel and before the sun.'" David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die. Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the LORD, the child who is born to you shall die.
2 Samuel 12:11-14
So the congregation sent 12,000 of their bravest men there and commanded them, "Go and strike the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword; also the women and the little ones. This is what you shall do: every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall devote to destruction." And they found among the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead 400 young virgins who had not known a man by lying with him, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh, which is in the land of Canaan. Then the whole congregation sent word to the people of Benjamin who were at the rock of Rimmon and proclaimed peace to them. And Benjamin returned at that time. And they gave them the women whom they had saved alive of the women of Jabesh-gilead, but they were not enough for them. And the people had compassion on Benjamin because the LORD had made a breach in the tribes of Israel. Then the elders of the congregation said, "What shall we do for wives for those who are left, since the women are destroyed out of Benjamin?" And they said, "There must be an inheritance for the survivors of Benjamin, that a tribe not be blotted out from Israel. Yet we cannot give them wives from our daughters." For the people of Israel had sworn, "Cursed be he who gives a wife to Benjamin." So they said, "Behold, there is the yearly feast of the LORD at Shiloh, which is north of Bethel, on the east of the highway that goes up from Bethel to Shechem, and south of Lebonah." And they commanded the people of Benjamin, saying, "Go and lie in ambush in the vineyards and watch. If the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in the dances, then come out of the vineyards and snatch each man his wife from the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin.
Judges 21:10-21
There are more that I can list, if you don't think those are enough.
As far as the bashing of children's head against rocks, well I have not seen that in my bible, but I believe you are referring to Herod, who killed all the male children under 2 because he did not want any rivalry to the thrown. If it is in your bible, I am sure it is not in support of him...I don't see where the bible supported that. The only time I have seen religion, or at least, culture support the killing of children, was on Masada, as it was better to kill your children and yourself, than to see them be raped and tortured.
Again, you are wrong. See, this is what happens when people really haven't read the Bible but they think they know what it says.
Now the glory of the God of Israel had gone up from the cherub on which it rested to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed in linen, who had the writing case at his waist. And the LORD said to him, "Pass through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations that are committed in it." And to the others he said in my hearing, "Pass through the city after him, and strike. Your eye shall not spare, and you shall show no pity. Kill old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women, but touch no one on whom is the mark. And begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were before the house. Then he said to them, "Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain. Go out." So they went out and struck in the city.
Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the land a desolation and to destroy its sinners from it. For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light. I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will put an end to the pomp of the arrogant, and lay low the pompous pride of the ruthless. I will make people more rare than fine gold, and mankind than the gold of Ophir. Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place, at the wrath of the LORD of hosts in the day of his fierce anger. And like a hunted gazelle, or like sheep with none to gather them, each will turn to his own people, and each will flee to his own land. Whoever is found will be thrust through, and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished.
Isaiah 13:9-16
O daughter of Babylon, doomed to be destroyed, blessed shall he be who(H) repays you with what you have done to us! Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!
Psalms 137:8,9
So, I am not sure which religion actually supports these horrible things you speak of, but that still does not mean that "g*d d**n America" is okay.
As these scriptures point out, the religions that actually supports these horrible things are any that claim the Bible as their holy book. If saying "God damned America" isn't okay, then where is the proof? Where is the evidence that this is wrong? It's certainly in keeping with what the biggest religions in the world preach. It's certainly in line with the religion that Wright is a part of (i.e. Christianity).
I would rather be part of NO religion than listen to either of the religions you describe. Thankfully, I do not have to as there are many, many peaceful religions out there.
That isn't the point. The point is that Wright wasn't behaving in an unusual manner or saying anything that was out of line or beyond the claims of mainstream Christianity.
But I think you will find if you just stay home and read the bible, it will show a different side- maybe it is not the bible that is wrong, but the preacher that taught you.
And what preacher do you think that is? I have been to all sorts of houses of worship. I've been to Catholic churches, Presbyterian churches, Methodist churches, Baptist churches, masjids, synagogues, Kingdom Halls, the Church of Latter Day Saints, Buddhist Shrines, Calvary Chapel churches, Greek Orthodox and Antiochian Orthodox churches. Beyond those that I have visited, I've also listened to sermons from other Bible-based religious groups that do/did not have locations in any of the places I've lived. I have several translations of the Bible in English and other languages. Though there may be some disagreement on the inclusion of some books of the Bible, the ones I quoted from are accepted canon.
Certainly in the recent past, we have seen many priest, preachers, rabbis, etc- that have distorted the bible for their own sick reasons. I am just saying Rev. Wright is one of them.
And I am saying that you have no proof to back up your claim.
However, that doesn't mean I have to like or even believe that he is not a nutcase for saying what it is that he says.
Sure, you can say that. However, that means that everyone who preaches what the Bible says is also a nutcase. Of course, there are plenty of folks who would agree with you on that, but those who believe that the Bible defines what is right/wrong/sane/insane have plenty of reasons to say that this label describes YOU a lot better than it does them.
And considering the Jewish religion denounces lying, and stealing, and murdering, it is offensive, to all people regardless of religion, to put them into this group.
Even if you feel offended, it still remains a fact that Jewish people lie, steal, murder and engage in all of the same activities as folks in other groups. Being offended by facts seems like a waste of energy to me.
Bint Alshamsa,
I am going to have to take a page from Clint Eastwood's book and say, "Shut Up!". Shut up because you admitted on your own blog that you come here, and visit other libertarian blogs, just to laugh at the people there and argue with them! Shut up because you just distorted the bible you know nothing about (I am not a religious nutcase, but I know that those passages were taken out of context, espescially the one from Psalms- it is a metaphor, but I am sure you just don't understand anything you read- No, I have not read ALL of the Christian bible, because I am not a Christian- I don't have a Christian bible, that is why I needed your help in giving me passages that promote the things you said in there, but seeing as you misinterpreted the bible I read, I think you a little unreliable)! Shut up because despite how wicked a few religions may be it does not mean that a guy cursing the nation he promised to serve with his life is in the right! Shut up because you were the one who proposed the idea that Rev. Wright had more right to speak than me, that is you asking for special rights for him, but then you criticize later when I explain my reason that he does not deserve it (we call that scattered thought in psychology, or just plain manipulation)! Shut up because you claim that instead of saving children from being violated I need to work for hospice, when my uncle is a hospice patient DYING of colorectal, stomach, pancreatic, lung, and now we think brain as he cannot remember who I am and told my dad to go out for a smoke when my uncle watched my dad take his last cigarette before his AAA 2 years ago, I've seen people dying, as drug addicts, in the worst places that you can think of; and after all of that I met a lot of little girls who had been abused, and now want to kill themselves, so I want to protect them; excuse me if that is so wrong! What are YOU doing? And guess what, he worked in Germany next to a bunch of crap that is very likely the culprit of all his cancers, fighting for your right to say what you want, and hate the people you want. You want to put down all I have done and all I dream to do for other people, but really what are YOU doing? You haven't done a thing that I haven't done. You say, get back with you on that- I have seen cancer, I have seen my uncle spend 12 hours in the bathroom, I have given him the medication, I have seen a strong man become a humiliated one with the amount of things we now have to do for him (and the same thing happened when my single father had an abdominal aortic aneurysm, had complications with it that led to a collapsed lung, and I had to at 21 decide [by myself as I had no mother to consult] between a procedure that had a 50/50 chance of killing him and not doing it and he had a 90/10 chance of dying; on top of that he had to be awake during the procedure and used a lot of his old military language to desribe the tube, the nurse, and me; he survived thank G*d), and I would still decide to use my life to insure that little girls do not want to die by their own hands instead. So, I got back to you on that one. Shut up because you ask whether or not I have worked for the military- I live in the DC area, there are military bases and government all around me, of course I worked to help the friggin' military! Shut up because all you do is come on here and spout your hatred! People like you are why there are many people who don't feel comfortable walking outside their homes with evidence of their religious beliefs around their necks. People that think like you do are why my family had to move from country to country to find a safe place, and then when they got there, worship in their basements with the curtains closed, and even then were tortured and hanged (if they were lucky- if they decided not to confess during the torture, they were burned alive), 1 guy out of hundreds in my family survived the Inquisition (now that is religion run amock). Because of people that talk like you do, and think like Farrakhan, my father tells everyone he is spanish (and he is), but that dark skin and those facial features give him away, and he has to get drunk before he will tell anyone but close friends who are ancestors were, and sometimes people mistake him for Arab and he was pushed in a restaurant right after 9/11 (we respect people of all races, as a matter of fact, a lot of my dad's students that were from the middle east called him "Abba" [Dad], and he would make special arrangements for them to see places in DC and NYC, so I don't understand this gross hatred towards people not like you). You know what? I feel bad for people like you that hold such hatred in your hearts, if you were to let it go you would be so much happier. Here in DC, where people do actually serve their country in a variety of ways, Wright would NOT be in line with the religious places here. People here are peaceful and understanding of eachother. Are there some people here who are bad, you betcha there are, but in general people are kind, and we don't yell about fire and brimstone, or how bad the U.S. is in our religious places, politics doesn't belong in religion anyway. And I don't know where in New Orleans you are going to church, because my father was born there at the Hotel Dieu, and he does not have hatred like that in his heart. You just proved yourself for the person you are, so all I can say to you is "Shut Up!" because the people here want to have constructive debate and not vomit hatred all over the place.
To Hector- thank you! That was the exact thing I was trying to explain to her. While I did not agree with your first posts, I was not intending to be rude or strong worded in my response to you (unlike I was above, but that is just because she blasts hatred that makes me afraid to leave my home knowing people like her are out there), I was just trying to have a constructive debate and give information- some people are not aware of what some of these people are saying at times. But anyway, thank you for understanding exactly what I was trying to say- everyone has a right to say what they want, regardless of who they are or what they've done, but they can also reject another's words as well by using the same right to free speech.
-Danielle
www.theyreallliars.com
A mostly political blog that isn't Republican or Democrat.
Danielle,
I am going to have to take a page from Clint Eastwood's book and say, "Shut Up!".
Fortunately, this is the internet, so I can simply laugh at your demand. If you want me to shut up, then you're free to try and come make me do so.
Shut up because you admitted on your own blog that you come here, and visit other libertarian blogs, just to laugh at the people there and argue with them!
I do laugh at some of the people here. If you don't want people to laugh at you, don't be so funny. On the other hand, there are some people here who I am quite fond of: The Right Guy, Hector, William, Kn@ppster, The Ghost of Barry Goldwater. Even when I disagree with them, I can see that they are capable of making cogent arguments.
Shut up because you just distorted the bible you know nothing about (I am not a religious nutcase, but I know that those passages were taken out of context, espescially the one from Psalms- it is a metaphor, but I am sure you just don't understand anything you read
Context? YOU believe that statements should be considered in context? Now that's funny! That's exactly what I say about Wright's comments. If we should take those verses about killing babies and raping women in context, then there's no reason why we shouldn't do the same with other religious claims as well.
No, I have not read ALL of the Christian bible, because I am not a Christian
You don't have to be a Christian in order to read all of the Christian Bible. I have read the holy books of many religions that I have never and will never belong to. It makes no sense to comment about what is and isn't inside of something if you haven't read it for yourself.
I don't have a Christian bible, that is why I needed your help in giving me passages that promote the things you said in there, but seeing as you misinterpreted the bible I read, I think you a little unreliable)!
Anyone with the internet has access to the entire Bible, so that's no excuse for not knowing what's in it.
Shut up because despite how wicked a few religions may be it does not mean that a guy cursing the nation he promised to serve with his life is in the right!
You still haven't proven that Wright did anything wrong. Did he break some law? Did he contradict the religion he preaches? He did not, ergo he did nothing wrong.
Shut up because you were the one who proposed the idea that Rev. Wright had more right to speak than me
Wrong again. Can you show where I made this claim? I'm sure you can't because I never made it.
Shut up because you claim that instead of saving children from being violated I need to work for hospice
Who said you need to do one instead of the other? You can do both. I've worked for CASA and I've spent time with people in hospice.
when my uncle is a hospice patient DYING of colorectal, stomach, pancreatic, lung, and now we think brain as he cannot remember who I am and told my dad to go out for a smoke when my uncle watched my dad take his last cigarette before his AAA 2 years ago
Is this supposed to mean you can't work with people in hospice? I've done it and I've not only had to deal with relatives dying of cancer; I've also dealt with my own diagnosis of incurable cancer. It's not the end of the world, you know.
What are YOU doing?
You've been on my blog. Read it for yourself if you were incapable of doing so in the last comment.
And guess what, he worked in Germany next to a bunch of crap that is very likely the culprit of all his cancers, fighting for your right to say what you want, and hate the people you want.
I live in an area of the country known as Cancer Alley. Feel free to figure out why it's called that. By the way, no one can fight for my rights, but that's an entirely different subject that might just be over your head entirely.
You want to put down all I have done and all I dream to do for other people, but really what are YOU doing? You haven't done a thing that I haven't done. You say, get back with you on that- I have seen cancer, I have seen my uncle spend 12 hours in the bathroom, I have given him the medication, I have seen a strong man become a humiliated one with the amount of things we now have to do for him (and the same thing happened when my single father had an abdominal aortic aneurysm, had complications with it that led to a collapsed lung, and I had to at 21 decide [by myself as I had no mother to consult] between a procedure that had a 50/50 chance of killing him and not doing it and he had a 90/10 chance of dying;
Au contraire! It's quite apparent that I have done something you haven't. While you are going on and on about having to watch others deal with cancer, I have done that AND dealt with it myself. Have you? Have you spent hours in the bathroom puking your guts out? Have you taken chemotherapy and watched your hair fall out and your weight drop WHILE holding down a job and going to school full time AND continue being a parent the entire time? Have you had to decide whether or not to have a procedure that would more than likely kill you but represented your only chance for survival? Have you had to have needles pushed into your chest and through your lung while doctors push down on your chest--all while you are awake? Have you had to walk around with two garden hose-sized tubes in your chest?
When you have actually EXPERIENCED those things, and been a survivor of sexual assault, then you'll be able to get back to me on this topic. Otherwise, you're just on the outside looking in. You will never have a clue about what any of this is like otherwise.
I live in the DC area, there are military bases and government all around me, of course I worked to help the friggin' military!
I didn't ask if you worked to help the military. I asked if you worked FOR the military.
Shut up because all you do is come on here and spout your hatred!
Now this is amusing! Who and what is it I supposedly hate? I do dislike people who take pride in their ignorance and those who are avowed bigots. However, none of the people here that I might dislike have shown themselves deserving of my hatred.
People like you are why there are many people who don't feel comfortable walking outside their homes with evidence of their religious beliefs around their necks.
Riight! If someone is uncomfortable with showing their faith to others, then that has nothing to do with me. I've always defended people's right to believe whatever they want and worship however they please as long as they don't try to force others to do so.
People that think like you do are why my family had to move from country to country to find a safe place, and then when they got there, worship in their basements with the curtains closed, and even then were tortured and hanged (if they were lucky- if they decided not to confess during the torture, they were burned alive), 1 guy out of hundreds in my family survived the Inquisition (now that is religion run amock).
Oh please! Can you get yourself together, s'il vous plait? What religious group have I ever persecuted? You do realize that I'm quite religious myself, right? I mean, if you've been on my blog and actually read through it, as you claimed, then you'd be aware of the fact that I was born and raised as a member of a religious minority and many people with my ethnic background are still prohibited by law from practicing their religion in this country. So you can just take your sad story back where it came from because you're not the only one with one. You don't see me coming here expecting people not to ever say anything bad about a religion that I might be fond of. This is, at least in theory, a libertarian blog!
Because of people that talk like you do, and think like Farrakhan, my father tells everyone he is spanish (and he is), but that dark skin and those facial features give him away, and he has to get drunk before he will tell anyone but close friends who are ancestors were
Look, can you please take some responsibility here? I have a multi-ethnic heritage and I constantly have to deal with people who think their bigotry will be acceptable to me because they assume that they know who my ancestors are and aren't. I don't let that affect whether or not I am proud of my heritage. If someone doesn't like who my ancestors were, that's their problem.
and sometimes people mistake him for Arab and he was pushed in a restaurant right after 9/11
Join the club. After 9/11, my daughter had to hide the fact that she could speak Arabic. Many of my female Muslim friends got chased around campus and had to quit taking courses in the evening because campus security refused to protect them.
You know what? I feel bad for people like you that hold such hatred in your hearts, if you were to let it go you would be so much happier.
I feel so amused by people like you who think that those who disagree with them must feel hatred towards them. If you were to let go of your prejudices, you might be a lot happier yourself.
Here in DC, where people do actually serve their country in a variety of ways, Wright would NOT be in line with the religious places here. People here are peaceful and understanding of eachother.
I've been to D.C. It is definitely no bastion of peace and understanding.
politics doesn't belong in religion anyway.
Religion is inherently political.
And I don't know where in New Orleans you are going to church, because my father was born there at the Hotel Dieu, and he does not have hatred like that in his heart.
Hotel Dieu is not a church, it's a hospital, so what does that have to do with religion? As a matter of fact, I was born at Methodist. If he's from New Orleans, then he's probably fairly familiar with what churches I've attended since all of the ones I mentioned above have locations in New Orleans as well.
You just proved yourself for the person you are, so all I can say to you is "Shut Up!" because the people here want to have constructive debate and not vomit hatred all over the place.
If all you wanted to say was "shut up" you could have done so. However, you evidently WANTED to say much more than that, so why lie about it?
By the way, Hector's comment was quite different from yours, so if you were trying to say what he said, you failed.
Bint Alshamsa,
I can no longer acknowledge your hatred (and unfortunately you have so much you can't see what you yourself said that was so offensive about the Jewish people) and ignorance with a response. I do ask of you one thing, if you don't like libertarains- please leave, so we can go back to doing what we can to protect others liberties, the Jewish, Christian, Muslim, atheists, and so on, EVEYONE's liberties. Thank you!
-Danielle
www.theyreallliars.com
A mostly political blog that isn't Republican or Democrat.
P.S. I know well that Hotel Dieu is a hospital (wow! most people assume it's a hotel), I mentioned nothing of a church and when I was refering what I have done vs. what you have, it was involvement in your community as you were so adament that this is what determined my right to an opinion, and I confident that I have done more than most, despite your claims. And you have NO IDEA what I am or aren't a survivor of or what my family has survived, maybe I just don't like my entire history for the whole world to see. Just three more pieces (and I could have gone on, if I hadn't been so sickened by your hate and ignorance; by the way, give me ONE word of my own bigotry and I will swallow what you have to say, but you cannot because I have NEVER in my life been a bigot; by the way you don't even know what my ethinicity is, you assumed for a long time I was a Christian, still may, I don't know, so don't call me a bigot, because I have shown NO hatred of you, your ethnicity, or your religion or of anyone else's; and if you had read MY blog you would know I do not allow that kind of filth to see the light of day, if hate speech to you is not liking the guy that you do, I don't know what to tell you, but it isn't hate speech at all; I have visited your blog, I am pretty sure what religion you are a part of [if you and your nieces indeed have the same religion, but I do not like to assume as you do], and I do not hate you for that, I have a lot of Muslim friends and Islam is a beautiful, tolerant, loving religion- it is YOU that is the problem and that is what you cannot accept) of evidence on how you cannot hold a coherent thought without them running into each other along the synapse.
Danielle,
I can no longer acknowledge your hatred (and unfortunately you have so much you can't see what you yourself said that was so offensive about the Jewish people) and ignorance with a response.
No longer? What do you think you're doing now? I think it's hilarious when people say they aren't going to do exactly what it they are in the process of doing. Why not just be honest with yourself? If you're offended about something I've said, then it's up to you to decide whether or not to state why that is. However, I have no responsibility (or desire) to try and play mind reader with you.
I do ask of you one thing, if you don't like libertarains- please leave, so we can go back to doing what we can to protect others liberties, the Jewish, Christian, Muslim, atheists, and so on, EVEYONE's liberties.
If you don't like people using their freedom to speak their mind, then you are the one who might do well to leave. By the way, demanding someone to shut up is rather antithetical to protecting their liberties.
I know well that Hotel Dieu is a hospital (wow! most people assume it's a hotel), I mentioned nothing of a church
You're lying. Here's your quote:
And I don't know where in New Orleans you are going to church, because my father was born there at the Hotel Dieu, and he does not have hatred like that in his heart.
and when I was refering what I have done vs. what you have, it was involvement in your community as you were so adament that this is what determined my right to an opinion,
You're lying again. Show where I ever claimed that your community involvement is what determines your right to an opinion.
and I confident that I have done more than most, despite your claims.
You can be confident about anything. That doesn't make it true.
And you have NO IDEA what I am or aren't a survivor of or what my family has survived, maybe I just don't like my entire history for the whole world to see.
Or maybe you just haven't experienced such a diagnosis at all. If you were living with an incurable cancer, I'm fairly sure that you'd have a better understanding of it than you do. If it was the case that you just don't like to discuss your history, then you wouldn't have voluntarily done so. It's not like anyone forced you to talk about your uncle's cancer or your father's surgery. Just don't be a poseur. If you don't have cancer, then good for you! Why be ashamed to admit it?
Just three more pieces (and I could have gone on, if I hadn't been so sickened by your hate and ignorance
Pepto Bismol works fairly well.
by the way, give me ONE word of my own bigotry and I will swallow what you have to say, but you cannot because I have NEVER in my life been a bigot
What in heaven's name are you talking about? Why are you even telling me this? Do you think I care whether you are or have ever been a bigot? Is there some reason why this is supposed to matter to me?
by the way you don't even know what my ethinicity is, you assumed for a long time I was a Christian, still may, I don't know
Where did I assume this? To be honest, I don't even care what religion you are or if you even have one at all. Furthermore, have we ever spoken before? As far as I can recall, this is our first conversation.
so don't call me a bigot, because I have shown NO hatred of you, your ethnicity, or your religion or of anyone else's
I have shown no hatred of you, your ethnicity, or your religion, yet you persist in making these goofy claims to the contrary. If that makes me hateful, then you're hateful too.
and if you had read MY blog you would know I do not allow that kind of filth to see the light of day, if hate speech to you is not liking the guy that you do, I don't know what to tell you, but it isn't hate speech at all
What are you calling hate speech? Is it hate speech when someone points out what a religion teaches? You're the one who has their undies in a bunch because a preacher did what preachers do; they preach.
I have visited your blog, I am pretty sure what religion you are a part of [if you and your nieces indeed have the same religion, but I do not like to assume as you do], and I do not hate you for that
I'm pretty sure you don't know what religion I am a part of. Feel free to take a crack at it. I have a few nieces and they have different religions, so if you think you have read enough about me to be pretty sure, then feel free to speak up.
I have a lot of Muslim friends and Islam is a beautiful, tolerant, loving religion- it is YOU that is the problem and that is what you cannot accept) of evidence on how you cannot hold a coherent thought without them running into each other along the synapse.
This is funny. You actually used a run-on sentence to claim that I "cannot hold a coherent thought".
How I am isn't a problem for me. I'm quite happy with who I am. So, if it is a problem, it's a problem for YOU and that has nothing to do with me.
Since the beginning the jews were slaves in sumatra and persia, they have stolen the stories of those masters and attempt to incorporate them into the old book. The attempt to explain away their past and their minimal population today continues. They had to be given their land... in the hope they would go there. They deserve protection as humans but why did every country kick them out. Why did even jews like marx stalin lenin hitler refuse their participation. dont forget expulsion from almost every european country. We wish them well and finance their new land. It is possible that sanctuary that we extend is to be our downfall as they are the first to dislike traditional european thought and sponser communistic and socialist power grabs... Many who are in israel will never see the kingdom of emmanuel.
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