Sunday, May 11, 2008

9/11 Truthers push Libertarian Presidential candidates to sign Investigation Pledge: Ruwart, Kubby and Gravel agree, Barr, Root and Phillies say No

by Andrew Murphy

In perhaps what may be its greatest opportunity yet, the Libertarian Party has within its grasp a chance for the strongest showing in a presidential election in its 37 year history. One of the LP candidates - Bob Barr - is already polling 4% to 7% in Zogby, which translates to roughly 5 to 6 million votes. Another frontrunner - Wayne Root - has already appeared on Fox News, CNN, ESPN and numerous major radio talk shows nationwide.

However all of that may be compromised and put into jeopardy by the Party's anarchists and 9/11 Truthers wing who are planning on turn the LP convention this month (starts May 22) into a referendum on 9/11 revisionism and denial of the Holocaust on American citizens in New York City, and Washington DC.

Libertarian candidates Mary Ruwart, Mike Gravel, Michael Jingozian,
Daniel Imperato and Steve Kubby have already signed this current pledge by Libertarians for Justice, a 9/11 Truth movement started by Jim
Duensing, the state party LP chairmen for Nevada.

Libertarian Presidential Candidates Bob Barr, George Phillies, and Wayne Root have
not signed the pledge.

The cleverly worded Libertarians for Justice Pledge:

On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned DEMAND JUSTICE FOR THE VICTIMS of the terrorist attacks on September 11th, 2001.

For the families who have fought bureaucratic stonewalling;

For the rescue workers who are still dying of mysterious illnesses;

For the researchers and experts who have dedicated their lives to researching the government’s conspiracy theory;

And for the American people whose freedoms were surrendered to the terrorists by our own government.

We, the undersigned, demand a publicly conducted Congressional inquiry, with full subpoena power, into the largest terrorist attack in American history.

The committee shall meet, ask questions, and demand answers until We the People are sure beyond a reasonable doubt that the terrorists have been brought to justice.

With one of it's presidential candidates now running at 7% nationally in the polls(Bob Barr), one would think that the LP would be more focused on turning that 7% margin into 14% or 21% by November but instead they are insuring that once again the LP will be stuck with less then 1% of the national vote. Even if Bob Barr is smart enough to stay away from such revisionism, if he does get the LP nomination, this pledge will hound him for the entire presidential campaign.

Don't kid yourself. This is not some minor side show that is going on with these Libertarians for Justice. This year already Dylan Avery, director of Loose Change, was the keynote luncheon speaker at the 2008 Libertarian State Chairs Conference. Loose Change, is the You Tube hit from 2005, a documentary claiming that 9/11 was an inside job. A documentary so full of mistakes and distortions that even members the 9/11 truth Movement like Michael Green have separated themselves from some of the theories in the documentary.

Make no mistake, allowing the 9/11 Truth movement to take over the LP is not going to be good. It is not only bad history but it is bad politics. Like the albatross in Coleridge's Ancient Mariner, this will hang around the LP candidates neck and may even ultimately hang the entire libertarian movement with them.

*Editor's Note - The Editorial Board at Libertarian Republican blog wishes to express our extreme disgust with those who claim to be "Libertarians" yet subscribe to such conspiratorialist views. These views are nothing less than reprehensible. And we wish to affirm that they in no way represent the views of the libertarian movement. We condemn them in the strongest terms possible, much as we would condemn Nazis, Murderous Communists, Racists like the KKK and other Hate Groups. It is a great shame that some Libertarian Party Presidential candidates have chosen to shame the movement by endorsing this Hate Group. -- Eric Dondero, Publisher


This article has been commented favorably on as a feature story at the Delaware Libertarian blog. Commenting on Andrew Murphy's assertion above that such a linkage to the 9/11 Truther movement would hurt the LP, Steven Newton, LD Publisher says, "I must reluctantly agree that here is another great way to marginalize yourself as a party." We hope to run the piece in its entirety here at LR, pending permission from the LD site.


Steve Newton said...

Truth in advertising: I don't agree with most of what I see written here, and as a Libertarian I'm pretty far away from (even critical of) Eric and company.

But in this instance, he's right.

Attaching our party (and even potentially our nominee) to a 9/11 Truther statement is turning the LP from the Party of Principle to the Party of Conspiracy Theorists, and leads only down the road of self-marginalization.

Please see

Anonymous said...

setting the legitimate freedom movement back a generation

stefan said...

While the "Libertarians for Justice" could well include 911 "turthers", nothing in the formulation suggest it is a pure 911 "turthers" behind it or that you would necessarily be a 911 "trurther" if you sign the pledge.

On the online poll on their website one sees the issue most called for is: "Which aspect of 9/11 Truth most needs an investigation with subpoeana power? The collapse of WTC 7"

This is a legitimate scientific question, like how can two airplanes knock off three buildings. In all sincerity, I cannot detect any "hate speech or thought" in that.

It should also be noted that among the 911 'truthers" there seems to be very different and even conflicting theories and explanations, that it is difficult to describe them in a sentence or paragraph. There are surely some anarchists among them, but also highly intelligent academics and researchers. Important is how you interpret the facts, there there is sometimes more than one way you interpret an idea or a fact.

The fact for me is that after the 911 commission report there still remain unanswered questions and critical thinker should demand to be researched, like if and how the 911 attacks could have been prevented with all the intelligence reports for which the US taxpayers have paid millions, yet failed to be effective. For instance, the training of (Arabic) pilots
who wanted to know how to fly a plane, but not how to land it. I mean if that is not a source for suspicion, then you are simply naive. Also, if the pilots of the aeroplanes were allowed to carry weapons, like in the 2nd. AMendment and if the airlines were given the responsibility for security (under a libertarian political policy), the pilots could have simply shot the 911 hijackers, who had no guns with themselves, only knives.

Also, if you consider how much the US govt and CIA propped up Al Qeada and the Taleban, provided weapons and training to fight the Russians more than a decade ago and Osama Bin Laden who was on the CIA's payroll, Al Qaeda could be seen as very much a product of the US govt. in certain sense and the attack of Al Qaeda on the US (Al Qaeda being a CIA product), it could be seen as an "inside job" by the CIA with their past actions (blowback).

It is like creating a weapon to attack an enemy, but later the assassin/user of the weapon, goes around and uses the weapons on yourself.

In short, the ineptness should be researched. Clinton's failure to capture Osama Bin Laden while there were many hints should be researched/ investigated, his sell of US military secrets to the Chinese, and also the Bush/Cheney administration's backing off the haunt for Osama Bin Laden with the attack on Iraq. Osama Bin Laden has probably fled in the meantime, making it virtually impossible to ever catch him. Cathing Osama Bin Laden would have been a great justice to the survivors and families of victims of 911.

Overseer over "The Management"

stefan said...

My strongest criticism of the "911 inside job" theorists
is how can they give Bush/Cheney the "honor" of being able to pull a 911 inside job off, while they are clearly so inept, lack any real skills and incompetent! Why do they want to give them credit. This logical argument is my strongest argument in debunking "011 inside job" sillies! :-)

Andrew Ian Dodge said...

Great post and perfectly spot on. The truthers are going to turn back all the gains the LP has made. Many of the conspirazoids have used 9/11 as a cover for their jew-hatred. Reading between the lines makes this pretty clear.

Andrew said...

stefan, Yes it is always about just asking "innocent" questions among all conspiracy theorists. The fatal logic is the reason they want a new investigation is that they don't believe the first one or any independent scientific study(Popular Mechanics). So let say we have a new 9/11 commission study and the results end up coming up with the same conclusions as the first commission. Will the Truthers go away and fold their tents? Of course not, they will say, "see the conspiracy continutes". They are not interested in a new study of 9/11 because they already believe they know the answer.

Eric Dondero said...

Do you think that this might be intentional? In the 1970s the FBI infiltrated the Libertarian Party. Greg Kaza, a friend of mine, wrote an in-depth story on the infiltration for American Libertarian, with complete documentation from the FOIA.

If the FBI can do it, why not Leftwing Radicals, perhaps connected with Soros?

After all, the Ron Paul organization was infiltrated in 3 states last year: Wisconsin, California, and most notably in Nevada.

Whose to say that Soros and operatives aren't doing the same right now to the Libertarian Party?

They would have great incentive. After all Libertarians are the most strident defenders of Capitalism around. And they might figure they can use their connections with some Libertarians on opposition to the War to destroy the Party from within over Capitalism.

I know for a fact, that at least one political operative on the Left Libertarian side is a "gun for hire." Who would most certainly work for such a thing. And coincidentally, he just happens to be one of the leaders of the inside the LP "9/11 Truther" movement.

Something tells me this all isn't "accidental."

Eric Dondero said...

You know Stefan, it's pretty God-damned fucked up, when you can't even believe Popular Mechanics. As if the PM geek with their lead pencil holders in their shirt pockets and slide rulers, have a political agenda.

Gimmee a fucking break. When PM published that issue-wide article about the mechanics of the Towers falling, that was the complete end of any credence whatsoever given to 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Shame a Geek like you is so biased to even believe your fellow Geeks at PM Magazine.

Andrew said...


Didn't you know, CIA spooks paid the engineers that wrote Popular Mechanics article. Only "real" engineers support the Truther movement, the others are paid off by the government to give out "disinformation"

Jonathan said...

I beleive Science, Fire does melt steel. It's how they make it.

it's already been proven how "2 airplanes can knockdown 3 buildings"...2 of those buildings were pretty freakin' BIG and one of them fell into WTC7 and took half of it out making it eventually collapse.

There are just eye witnesses to corrobarate that, what would they know?

stefan said...

Andrew, there are those who are NOT 911 inside job conspiracy theorists who believe a broad investigation into issues not addressed by the 911 commission and those issues not adequately addressed that should be
investigated. Things like the INEPTNESS of the US govt. Also Kathrina and the lame response should be investigated! Kathrina is like 9/11 being announced a few days before and still no preparations etc.

The ineptness is the type of research I would be interested in, but of course the Bush govt. has been of the most secretive in history, while invading into the privacy of others. If they would have not been so secretive, I am sure there would not have been so many conspiracy theories.
There are always conspiracy theories with a major/significant and shocking event, like the murder on Yitshak Rabin, princess Dianne's accident in Paris, Kennedy assasination etc. etc. A conspiracy theory as such is not a bad thing, it is a critical questioning. Of course some questions get answered, removing the conspiracy, others are not answered, which could enhance the conspiracy.

If the Bush govt. would not have come up with such conspiracy nut theories about what Jihad really means and that Islamists hate the West because of the freedom and richness etc., that there were WMD in Iraq (another conspiracy theory!!!!), then there would not have been so mistrust. There was a clear attempt to cover up the issue with Cheney shooting his friend accidentally as well, and this leads to mistrust. In an open, libertarian society there would be much more trust in government.

I know well there are 9/11 conspiracy nuts, with which I disagree strongly. Now I can see Eric is also a conspiracy nut, spewing such nonsense that Ron Paul and his friends are on the payroll of George Soros! I mean, really. Paul has had his consistent philosphy for over 30 years... so George Soros must have been funding Paul since 30 year?? LOL

I have already PROVEN that Soros has been funding McCain since 2001, yet NO reaction or acknowledgement by either of you. It seems to be difficult to deal with the TRUTH!

Jonathan said...

Yes, Jihad is a made up Conspiracy by Bush. Talk about an idiotic and historically illiterate statement.

It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.

--Thomas Jefferson

who lobbied for war for over a decade with anti-liberty Jihadist, and took us into one as POTUS.

Andrew said...

Reason is stefan that I don't think Soros is a big deal like Horowitz and others say. He is an influence peddler playing both sides of the fence just like Murdoch gives money to Republicans and over in Britain gives money to the British Labour Party.

Steve Newton said...

For a completely different take on why the strategy being pursued by Libertarians 4 Justice is not in fact a Libertarian strategy, and therefore casts doubt on the credentials of those candidates who support it, see

stefan said...

Andrew:yes, you make more sensible comments, other than Eric, who want to play the Soros card every time.
George Soros did get a lot of influence from Karl Popper: The Open Society and its Enemies, which is as such a very libertarian political message.

Rupert Murdoch are contributing to Democrats as well, and Hillary CLinton being one and his daughter held a fund-raiser for Obama also.

stefan said...

Jonathan: while there are history of enslavement of Muslims and "colonialism" at stages over the centuries, but this is minor compared to the colonialism of England for instance and the current US
interventionist doctrine and neocolonialism (if you agree with us, we give you money, if you don't, we bomb you and/or impose sanctions). All the anarchy that the US interventionist message has caused (see Iraq) should be critisized and exposed. Now we know who the real anarchists are!

Anonymous said...

I am glad there are some other libertarians who are a bit freaked out by how 9/11 truth is quickly becoming associated with us.

ChrisB said...

I think I should point out that the Libertarian Party has already nominated a truther: .

Shrink Rat said...

I think it is kind of funny... a lot of comments about the purported impact of 9/11 truth upon the 'Libertarian' movement... but few arguing the truth of the essential facts proffered by that movement. That facts support 9/11 truth generally (excusing a few cointelpro folks who promote no planes and beam weapons, etc.)

Folks will believe what they believe. But if you argue the empirical data and the physics, 9/11 truth wins. If you argue the history, the events, the persons involved, the associations and actions perpetrated... 9/11 wins. The theories promoted explain the data. NIST does not. The U.S. government does not.

So, are you interested in what happened and what that happening implies. Or are you just interested in your sections of the libertarian movement?

BTW, all of the various internet radio libs on WTPRN tacitly or explicitly acknowledge the truth of 9/11. Does not impair their libertarian points of view as far as I can see....

Only those of some posters here. Youse guys ain't got a clue.

sorry if this a duplicate post